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Malibu Sportster

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SmoothWaterMan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmoothWaterMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2007 at 1:19am
Oops -

To better answer your question -
The Flightcraft models are excellent barefoot and wakeboard boats for their smooth curl, very defined wakes, and hard table density.  The SV23 hulls of the Echelon/Response were all aimed at creating a soft wake, and to eliminate any curl or size (height) to it.  The loss of wake definition is (was?) a hinderance to judges and footers alike, but the overall smoothness did increase wake speeds.

As a side note, not to take anything away from Brian Fuchs, but one reason his wake record stood for 12 years was it was set behind a '94 Flightcraft outboard, which had an very narrow wake (by todays standards).  (That and Brian always called for high wake speeds which narrowed the wake even more)  If St.Onge/Scarpa/or any number of talented footers could ski that boat again, the record would rise again.  I don't believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that there is a boat today that has the same width wakes at 75' as that early Flighty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Killer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2007 at 7:49pm
thanks a lot Peter!

I would love to get my hands on one of those sportsters. however it will have to be in a few years. 

I worry about them rotting out, but do they have the composite stringers and floor like their cousins: the response and echelon?

thx
Killer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bftskir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2007 at 8:33pm
sanger outboard barefooterThumbs%20Up
sanger inboard DXIIThumbs%20Up
nuf saidWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peteski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2007 at 11:57am
Gidday to everyone in the US
 
The've started punching out Sportster's over her in OZ and the home of "footing over here, in OZ, Mulwala, ( I can see Jimmy Taurus and Lee Stone starting to dream about VB cans already), and we've got one with a 340 injected Mercruiser. What size stainless prop should we be running????? 
 
PS can anyone send some money over to pay John Kretchman's bar bill from the 2004 WORLD'S?????  
 
Pete Taylor OZ.
who said an official can't ski...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmoothWaterMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 22 2007 at 1:07am
Originally posted by Killer Killer wrote:

thanks a lot Peter!

I would love to get my hands on one of those sportsters. however it will have to be in a few years. 

I worry about them rotting out, but do they have the composite stringers and floor like their cousins: the response and echelon?

thx
Killer


Killer, all the "Malibu" Sportsters are full glass.  These boats were made from '99 to '05.  The Flightcraft Sportsters (up to '95+/-) were a mixed bag, early ones (-'93) were wood stringers, newer ones were glass stringers and composite backing panels.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote foot1988 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2007 at 1:22pm
Good luck on trying to ask Malibu Sportster to bring back the Sportster:
1.Not enough footers buying boats.  It looks to me like the companies are struggling to keep even a model for slolam, and there aree a lot more slolam  skiers than footers.
2.They moved the Sportster mold to Austrailia. and from what I can see,    they are still producing, but just with the standard engine.  The only way to get a new Sportster is to import it.  Malibu won't help, because they want to sell you an overpriced  \ converted wakeboard boat, with a huge engine  because you need a plate to make it footable-which slows it down.
3.  A lot of the tournament footers want to ski the boats they ski in the tournaments, which is how Malibu steered them away from the Sporter.  Some are sticking with the better wake boats-Flightcraft and Sportster.
4. Malibu finally killed the Sportster by pricing out of the market.  I balked at $35k in 1995.  You can't tell me their costs increased $11k  in 7 years. 
 
I will keep my 1998 Sportster!   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barfot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2007 at 4:05pm
What it comes down to is that malibu wants to just concentrate on big easy profits.  Could malibu make a profit on the sportster yes.  do sanger, moomba, gecko and such make profit on cheaper boats?  Yes,  the difference is do you want ot have a high profit boat or sell more boats at a cheaper price.  I think all the inboard manufacturers are missing the big market.  I think they could all hit more people the average person with the price of an i/o now a days.
 
The fact of the matter is the price and the salesman decides on who buys the boat.  Several of my friends sel boats and they basically tell the person what they need to buy.  Outside of tournament skiiers people don't know about the boats what will fit there needs.  Unless you are really going to be a tournament skiier do you need a inboard no but its cool to have.  The person might like to see an openbow but in all actuality if you have a family its safer with little kids cause you can keep a better eye and hand on them if they are doing something unsafe. 
 
I understand the ideas that they are all pushing but this is a luxury iteam and people don't know really what they need.  They buy the status symbol that they can get.  The marina I deal with even says why deal with the cheaper boats when you can sell a malibu and you don't have to worry about financing it cause the buyers for malibu are fithy rich usually and pay them all in cash in full.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2007 at 7:04pm
Eric,  WOW!  I couldn't disagree with you more.  I believe the reason Malibu doesn't make the Sportster is because not enough people would buy them.  Most folks these days buy boats they can wakeboard on, carry the family and an inner tube around can slalom on and the occasional barefooter.  Most people want the inboard vs. the outboard because they are safer with kids (No prop sticking out the back), And they like the open bow so they can take more family.  I know this from first hand experience of selling now 6 promo boats.
 
As far as Malibu buyers being filthy rich.  Sorry, 'taint so.  the Malibu dealer here in Houston is the second largest Malibu dealer in the country and they finance MOST of their boats.
 
Also, I wonder if Malibu knows one of their "promo guys" is posting these kind of comments??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geauxstfooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2007 at 8:02pm
I agree with you Dan.

However, I have an '03 sportster which has an open bow, a wedge, swoop tower and the monsoon engine. So... I have my family and friends wakeboarding and I can pull barefooters @ 47mph+ and it has a better wake than any other barefoot boat out there right now. It has plenty of room. I've also pull a slalom skier on my lake that is competitive in local ski tourneys.

Is it b/c they have higher profit margins on the "luxury" models? If so, It would hard to argue against their decision to produce a more expensive boats.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2007 at 3:57pm
PJ, granted the Sportster can do all those things, but most folks seem to want a bigger boat than the Sprotster.  Bottom line is with the new models available, they just didn't sell.  Sure there is likely more profit on the bigger boats.
 
If I get out of the promo program somewhere down the road, I'd like to have a Sportster.  I understand they are a little hard to come by though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote barefootbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2007 at 7:28pm
Dont you think when the customer see's the 20k differance between the sportster and lxi the majority would go for the sporster.Seems like Maliboooohooo droped the sporster just as the boat prices have gon throuh the roof.I think with the price of boats today that the sportster would sell better then that over priced p.o.c. lxi.
Sorry,I know the lxi is a nice boat for someone.Just none around here.
 
What it comes down to it.Malibu could careless about anyone on this site.
 
Even Dan's wants to get a sporster when Maliboohooo stops giving him free boats.
 
I think the barefooters of the world should boycott Malibu.The only problem is that dosent make a dent in there sales.
 
Sanger sales quite a few DX11, you would think Maliboohooo would want some of that action.
 
What ever boat you get,I'll race ya anytime.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2007 at 8:02pm
Bob,  You are certainly entitled to your opinion but you should know some facts before you begin making accusatory comments like those.  (By the way, please check the posting guidelines as gross negativity such as your post are against the guidelines we set up when we created this forum.  Express your opinions in a more diplomatic way, please.)
 
But the facts for your consideration:
 
1.  I don't get "Free" boats.  I pay for them just like everyone else does.  I get a small discount in return for me taking my boat to tournaments for use.  Ask any promo person (Sanger or Malibu) and they will tell you they lose money. 
 
2.  Both Sanger and Malibu are looking at switching to their V-drive models.  Sanger because they don't sell enough Barefoot boats and Malibu because they think the V-drive might be a better wake.
 
3. The reason I would consider getting a Sportster next is because of the homeowner restrictions on the type and size boats I can use.  I can't use a V-drive on our lake and the boat can't weigh over 3000 lbs.  So, if Malibu switches, I could not continue to promo. 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2007 at 8:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote barefootbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2007 at 9:58pm
I dont think my post was gross negativity.
Maby I dont understand the promo deal but I do know that you cannot say anything aginst Malibu.
Like I said earler in this post.Malibu really bent over backwards to make me a happy customer when a Malibu sales person told me that the 95 Response 285hp boat would do 50mph easy.They put there top enginer on the case.Put a Monsoon motor /drive train and had the change the fuel system and everything.Charged me $1700 and I'm sure they spent alot more then that on the boat.
What happend the that mind set.New owner?Managment?I dont know.
I started pulling 2/3 footers on my local lake and all of a sudden everyone was getting a Responce.Putting that motor in my boat payed off for them.I feal I've done more for them at this point.
 
I like Malibu but as a barefooter I just think if a boat manufature,"no matter who it is" cant make a boat good for footin then why should a barefooter buy there boat.
Correct me if I'm wrong but at a Regonal comp/National cmp your told what boat you have to ski behind for what ever event.It just seems you shouldent be forced to ski behind somthine you dont want to.
If your trying to grow your sport but wont let people ski the boat they want would work aginst the sport.How many people pick a Malibu over a Sanger"thats not a promo guy".
 
With all the energy put into the post that barefooters want a sportster,So give them a Sporster or get out .Dont say"Well Here'use this boat and stop bothering me.This is what your going to get from us".
If one of my workers came to me with that attitude I would fire them.
 
Its to bad somthing you dont want to hear is conciderd gross negativity.
 
So just wondering.How many people think if Malibu cant step up and give us a boat we want to foot behine.Maby they should just go to the otherside of the lake ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bftskir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2007 at 10:47pm
so who has skied both a sportster and a sanger dxii barefooter?
 
how do the wakes compare?
 
i do not know anyone who ever had a sportster.
 
i have a hard time thinking it could make a better wake than a DXII.
 
And you can get one today used or brand new.
 
no hoping no praying. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geauxstfooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2007 at 1:35am
I own a sportster and skied the DXII in a tournament 2 weeks ago. The DXII's wake is higher. It took me a set to get used to skiing up and down the crests. I liked the DXII, but I know there is a boat with better wake b/c I ski behind one in practice. I was able to ski a 14.6 behind the DXII on the second round.

Bftskir, the sportster has a skinnier, flatter wake. I wish that more barefooters had the opportunity to ski the sportster. If you are in the Tampa area, look me up, we can go for a few sets.

The main point is that the sportster was/is an afforable family boat ski boat. It has everything a tournament level barefooter is looking for as well. I didn't realize how versatile it was when I bought it.

I even questioned the fact that it did not need a scarpa suppression plate to have a great wake. Most barefooters are surprised when I say that it doesn't need one.

Anyway, Both boats a great. I think it more affordable tournament level boat would be the better option.

Edited by geauxstfooter - July 27 2007 at 1:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote barefootbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2007 at 2:35pm
You would think with the gas prices the Sportster would sale better.I've been in sales along time,I know people and have talked to alot of boaters through the years.If I worked at at a boat dealership I know I could sell these boats.
I know I like having a barefoot boat that goes the whole weekend on 1 tank of gas.
 
Sorry Dan, dont meen to be dissen your boat bro.I get in this step up or step out mode here at wk.I've made alot of money off being a strait foward no bs type of person.Some do get rubbed the wrong way but come around.I do think highly of Malibu,One of my best days was when I got the grand toure and saw the secreet project.Playing with the color combo's on the computer.I desined my own Corvett boat.That was a day I'll never forget.The passion they had for there boats was #1 in my book.
Is Paul Singer still there? He should be reading this stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2007 at 2:55pm
Bob,  No problem saying whats on your mind.  Been doing it that way in business for almost 30 years.  Those who know me would say I'm the same type guy.  So express away.  But on this forum, we intend to keep it constructive and no personal attacks.  We're square as far as I am concerned Bob.  You understand the guidelines and will continue to be a good contributer to the forum I am sure. 
 
I share some of your same concerns and wishes.   Took the tour myself in the Tennessee plant a couple of months ago.  Awesome!  I'd say they still have the passion for their boats, but like Sanger, Mastercraft and others in the past, not too many manufacturers still have the passion for barefooting.  There's just not enough money in it.  But bottom line is we aren't going to see the Sportster in production as much as we might like it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2007 at 6:50pm

One correction Bob.  The only skiers at a regionals or Nationals who are told what boat they will ski behind is the Open and Open Pro divisions.  All the age divisions get to choose the boat they ski behind, either Malibu or Sanger. 

The reason the Open guys and gals don't get a choice is that is the incentive the manufacturers have to take their boats to tournaments.  The manufacturer with the most tournaments gets to choose which event they would like their boat used for in open (Slalom, trick, or jump). The manufacturer with the next highest number gets second choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RED02SANGER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2007 at 3:07pm

The sportster haveong the best wake is just an opion.If it realy did have the best wake the pros with ski schools would be useing and offering students to train behind them.Also roger pickard (U.S. team member in the early 90s and open pro guy)had one two yrsw ago said it was the best keept secret in foooting,but when he sold it funny he went back to a sanger DXII.Now Im not going to get into whitch boat is better I can say when I bought my boat it was for the wake not for the interior,because Id much rather be behind my boat than in it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote foot1988 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2007 at 7:46pm
Dan:
Malibu and Sanger are looking to switch to a V-drive as their "barefoot" models?  I would have to see it to believe this is a positive direction for "barefoot" boats.  With the motor weight further back / and overall heavier boat, it seems suited to throw up a nice wake for boarders, which is of course is who their main customers are.  Maybe the guys with the Malibu Responses \ LXI's, or Sanger inboards today will be the guys hanging on the their "old Style" boats, like the Sportster \ Outboard crowd is now???  It just seems bad for footers to keep on losing options of buying a new barefoot boat-first outboards, then sportsters, and now inboards?  Wow!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2007 at 8:49pm
It's only a rumor at this point.  But the top dogs of the boat manufacturers are pushing them to utilize boats that sell and make profit for them.  Sanger nor Malibu make much money on the whole barefootin' crowd. They just don't sell enough of them.  So, they are not going to invest in the research and development of boats that put out a nice barefooting wake.  They would rather spend their money in areas where they will get a return on their investment like wakeboard or slalom boats. You are right about barefooters not having too many good options.  Maybe we need to open it up to bass boat manufacturers.  Surely there are some of those bass boats with outboards that are skiable.  We'll just stick the judges in the live wells!  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bftskir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2007 at 12:47am
sad but true we may one day not too far off not have any boat being built for barefooting...i heard at a certain western tournament yesterday that sanger almost dropped the dxii...and was narrowly averted and lives another year...but they don't sell enough of em...maybe if you peeps would stop dreaming of an old malibu or buying a new malibu for barefooting and buy a Sanger dxii we could keep a killer inboard barefoot boat, the torque of the V8, the wakes that are smooth and friendly and a solidly built quality ride.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote barefootbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2007 at 3:20pm
At this point its not about research but more just keeping the boats that work around.The Sporster just like the DX11 is a great all around boat.If a sales person was more into selling what works for a family rather then pushing the most expensive boat to get the big commision these boats would sale.I have a bro that sales alot of holesale cars and boats from actons.So many boats get repo'd in the 1st couple years its crazy.
 
Maby everyone should jump onto one manufacture just to keep at least one good barefootboat around.
No matter what happens with the big boys Ski Pro will always have a awesome barefootboat around.The more I play in my Ski Pro the more I like the boat.Its so much fun to drive, sweet wake for footin and wakebording.It reminds me of my dirtbike, its reponsive like that. So much power.She's a ripper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DannyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2007 at 7:19pm
I think Bob makes a great point. We as a barefoot community need to support a boat manufacture that is going to stay committed and continue to make a suitable boat for barefooting. If we as a group can persuade Sanger to keep making the DXII we need to. It is obvious at this point that no boat manufacturer is going to take the time and money to develop and design a hull specifically for barefooting. What was the last boat produced that the manufacturer designed specifically for barefooting? Mastercraft BF 200? Flightcraft? Malibu keeps giving us these sub-par boats for us to use. I have skied the 2007 LXI and in my opinion this boat is completely unacceptable. The wake in un-skiable. There is NO curl to ski in. There is so much spray off the side of the boat there is no way in my opinion it should be used for jump. It is a legitimate safety concern. I just received the e-mail saying that as an open skier I am going to have to trick behind this thing. Last year I had to ski behind the Malibu at our regional tournament. The way I saw it was it was one less chance I was going to have to qualify for Worlds. This boat should never have been approved. The ABC let this one slip through the cracks. When there is a hull change these boats need to be retested even if it is an off year for testing. They should at least have tested and approved the Response LX. This would at least  have gaven us an option once we found out how terrible the LXI is. The chance that Malibu is going to scrap this hull after one year is slim to none. I have heard the three event stick skiers don't even like this thing. It will be interesting to see what they are going to do next year. I keep hearing that they just need to come up with a different plate and that going to fix the wake. There is NO plate in the world that is going to fix that wake. No matter what plate you put on the side spray is not going to change and there will probably still won't be a curl to ski in. I think it would be great if Malibu would bring back the Sportster, because what they're giving us now is unacceptable. This is a boat they could build and sell to the barefoot community and not have to spend any time or money on research. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Minion Gus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2007 at 3:52pm
Bum Buddy, I hear ya!
 
If Malibu were serious about having a legitimate barefoot boat, they would buy the mold (or plans for the mold) for the Sanger outboard from Sanger or go after the hull design on the South African rig that St. Onge set a world wake slalom record behind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2007 at 5:15pm
Gus,  Malibu already had a great outboard barefoot boat in the FlightCraft.  It was the boat almost everyone skied for the longest.  I had a 99 and skied a lot on the Sanger outboard. Both had great wakes compared to ANY of the ones we ski today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barfot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2007 at 2:30am
I just had the other day a long talk with someone from malibu.  Basically they don't care much about tournament skiiers period.  They don't sell many LXI's anymore either.  The reason to have those is to just put the official towboat on the backs of them.  they make 10 v-drives for every dirrect drive they make and they make about 10,000 more on those.  Yes barefooters aren't much of the people buying if any but neither are slalom skiiers.  Tournament athletes are not important enough for them to make a great boat for them.  They want boats that sell for the majority of the buyers who happen to be 90% of who buys the boats.  the rich people who can afford to buy a new one every few yrs.  They are forgetting who helped get them to the place that they are now.  I remember malibu use to say we are skiing focused and now with all the v-drives they just want to make the money.  We are nothing to them if we don't buy boats from them cause we would not make much of a difference in boats sold overall if all tournament skiers stoped buying them from them.  they want the v-drives cause people are more use to them cause its more like there old sea ray or crappy cheap boat that is all they really need but they have to show how much money they have on there lake by having a 90,000 ski boat.  It is a sad day but its what they care about build ur business and forget who helped you get to the top.  I mean before people hardly bought malibus then they had a great tournament boat and had the reputation and now they got the name and don't care.  We all helped feed the beast. 
 
Next year they want to go to a v-drive that is suppose to be a better boat.  It has a computer stretched hull from the response/lx.  The boat has higher sides and costs 8,000 more.  It is getting to high even when you get a deal.  We will be forced to sanger or gecko regardless becasue of the price by the end of it.  I like the sanger and haven't skiied a new gecko lately but haven't heard really anything good about it from people i know very well.  But its coming to a point of no one will be able to afford even a promo boat if they keep going this way.  I hate to say it but the pro who has a ski school seems to just try to make them happy and not help the sport.  we are getting boats that are getting not even usable anymore.  The wake in not acceptable on the LXI and the side spray was deamed unsafe because it moves the ramp on a center split at our regionals. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbjt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2007 at 3:40pm
Unfortunately you're right, it's all about supply and demand, but the truth is tournament barefooters have never really bought alot of boats. In 1990 corrct craft saw it coming. You can't blame Malibu for wanting to make money.
   What I don't understand is why don't we use the old barefoot boats. Why are we stuck on using new boats at tournaments that are inadequate for are needs? If the barefoot 200, flightcraft,sanger,barefoot nautique, ski brendella were all certified before why are they not usable now. Other people in the world use other boats. Seems if the boat is insured properly and meets all the safety standards we should still be using them. How much money does the boat companies put into barefooting anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2007 at 7:27pm

Valid question on using older boats.  As far as your question about how much money the boat companies put into barefooting, I do know Malibu is a Premier Sponsor of USA-WS and that is a substantial amount.  Granted only a portion of that comes to the ABC for barefooting, but it has helped us be able to send teams to Worlds and provide some funds for Junior Development and skier development within the regions.  Plus the manufacturers pay to have boats tested and approved.  Again, that figures into how much money we get from USA-WS each year.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KennyK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2007 at 9:02pm
Here's an idea: As long as the LXi is going to be used to pull tricks why not have a trick point value for crossing it's wake..... ON TWO FEET! I'd rather do a F/B, so it should be worth at least 250.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbjt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2007 at 10:52pm
Dan,
   Isn't the boat test a little bit of a joke now. For the most part if malibu or mastercraft only test one boat for barefooting then it is going to pass, no matter how bad or good. We should consider pulling local and small RC tournaments with older world record approved boats. Does the rest of the world use tested boats?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonesy920x Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 1:40am
How much do the boat manufacturer's have to pay for the testing ? I heard it was almost $10k, (now that is rumor and I haven't an idea of what it is and that why I'm asking) But doesn't it make sense to drop the price and see if more try the test ?
 
What happens when Sanger and Malibu finally say "You get what we offer and make it work, if you don't like it pound sand" I think this year's LXI is a prime example. They don't want to make a barefoot boat, there is no money in it. They want us to buy a wakeboard boat and "Modify" it for barefooting. Let's start a topic and brainstorm some ideas to bring in some new boats or like BBJT the old stuff everyone likes better anyway.
 
Oh yeah "Sportster"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBLFooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 2:06am
What is the story behind that Matrix boat they have in Australia...it looks like it has a 4 stroke Honda outboard on it?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 4:33am
Kenny,  I'm no great slalom skier.  I do 2 fts, but I cross it just fine.  I get 5 crosses and a zone or two on the Lxi.  Skied the Sanger a couple of weeks ago at a tournament and I got 6.  So if an old coot like me can cross it....  LOL  Granted, it ain't the Flightcraft and they need to fix it, but it looks worse than it skis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peteski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 6:17am
Hi guys, the Matrix over here in OZ is very similar to a Barefooter. Most have an Optimax on the back, so the Honda is a bit of a surprise. KSO skied behind one when over here a few years back and was impressed. It's another option, but we've just got a Sportster over here, but one of our members wanted one and the reps pushed him towards a Response. They only want to make a few a year as they make more money on the bigger boats. It looks like its the same world wide. But at least we 've got a new Sportster.
who said an official can't ski...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sledhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 1:08pm
On the utilization of older boats.  I looked at the World Rules last night, and it appears that any previously approved boat is eligible.  I haven't had a chance to look at the Canadian or US rulebooks on that issue.  Maybe Richard knows offhand.
We never said it was easy - just that it looked cool.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bftskir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 2:36pm
it was explained to me last weekend that we could use the older approved boats at our tournaments...and meet the "requirements" of the current boat...you bring the "current boat" to the tournament and park it in the parking lot...then you use whatever older approved boat you want.
 
 
of course the keg of heineken helped ...or hindered...getting this info...hicup


Edited by Bftskir - August 02 2007 at 2:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 2:37pm

You are correct on boat usage at a world level.  The PPG has a list of approved boats worldwide which can be used for IWSF sanctioned events.  They do not specify a particular year. So any boat on the approved list can be used.

In the US, the Towboat Manual specifies that only boats tested and approved via USA-WS boat tests may be used for tournaments.  To insure some consistency, the ABC specifies that only boats approved in the current year or previous two years may be used for class N,C,L and R tournaments.  For Nationals the requirement is current year or 1 previous. 
 
Some of the logic behind that is to insure that competitors around the country can know what boats they will be skiing at Nationals and thus be able to practice on those boats prior to the championship.  Imagine skiing all your tournaments on a Sanger outboard or Flightcraft and then getting to Nationals to find out the organizers are using a Barefoot Natique!  Granted that is the extreme, but it illustrates the why we have the rule for RC and National level tournaments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 2:44pm

Jimmy, I'd argue the boat tests are not a joke.  The boats are tested for safety, acceleration, top speed, etc.  Those are all pretty hard and fast measurements.  The skiability of the wake is so subjective, how do you "Test" or "Measure" that? 

Granted, because we don't have manufacturers beating down our doors to supply boats, we have probably been reluctant to not approve a boat unless it just couldn't get speed or something major like that.  That is one reason Mastercraft didn't send a boat to test because they couldn't get one to get speed and they knew it wouldn't pass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Minion Gus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 5:44pm

Thunder Dan,

 
Please do us all a favor and list:
 
1) Who is currently on the Boat Test Committee.
2) If there are any current openings on the Boat Test Committee and if they are by region.
 
Thanks a pile!
 
- Gus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 5:50pm

The Tow Boat Committee was just reorganized this year.  The Chairman of the Towboat Committee is none other than Colonel Mike Hartman.  You will recognize the name as Mr Organized from the Austin Nationals.  I'll ping him and get him to post the answers to your questions.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Hartman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 6:34pm
Gentlemen,
 
I am the current Chairman of the Towboat Committee and have a draft list of members which includes a representative from each region. Those members were nominated by the region executives. I have to deconflict one issue before I post the list.
 
The 2007 ISWF Barefoot Water-ski Rulebook & ABC Rulebook PPG and Towboat Manual page 47 paragraph L 1 a indicates Model Year Usage Policy as:  All classes (N, C, L & R) of tournaments may use current or prior two years eligible towboat tournaments except for Nationals where only current model year or previous year model (if current model is unmodified) may be used.
 
Para 2 refers to Towboat Credit Model Year;  This is where you are getting confused about use of any previously approved towboat being acceptable to pull a tournament.
 
Para 2a Only current year or prior two years of unchanged approved towboat qualify for credit toward regional participation. 
 
    Credit applies to manufacturer eligibility to decide which events they want to pull at Nationals. The manufacturer with the highest number of credits gets first pick.  This year it went to Sanger who received the most credits for events pulled (or boat on site) from July 16 2006 through July 15 2007. As a result, they chose first and chose to pull Open Men's Slalom, Malibu chose second and selected Open Men's Tricks.  All the selections for Open events are on the ABC web. Basically Sanger chose slalom and Malibu tricks.  Sanger got Open Men Jump and Malibu Open Women Jump.
 
In your scenario, if you had a 2007 Malibu Response LXI on site, but skied a National record on a '97 Flightcraft, as I read the policy, that record would be invalid, but Malibu would receive "towboat credit" for having the LXI on site.  Now if Malibu sent the Flighty to boat test every two years after ' '97 it would still be ok and your record would be valid.
 
That is the policy as I read it.  I didn't make it and as the Chairman for the next year will consider changes to the policy routed through the region towboat committe representative.
 
This discussion is good and helpful to the sport.
 
Mike Hartman
Towboat Committee Chairman
Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonesy920x Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 8:27pm

How much does it cost them to test ? And why ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 8:59pm
Jonesy, I'd have to check on the cost.  The Finance committee of USA-WS sets the testing fees, not the ABC.  Basically, they are paying for tow boat committees to come in to do the testing and for the "privilege" of saying their boats are USA-WS approved towboats.  Apparently there is some value in that to the manufacturers in their marketing pitches.  You've seen boats with "Official towboat of USA-WS" stickers on them.  And it's a source of revenue for USA-WS. 
 
Also, the manufacturer has to be a gold member of USA-WS, which costs them another grand I think.  Malibu does the premier sponsor level but I'm not sure how much that is.
 
Mike, Maybe Lisa St John from USA-WS would be willing to write a post explaining the cost, process, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote barefootbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 9:26pm
Well maby the people doing the tests for USA-WS should stop rolling over and send these boats back untill the manufactuer's get it right.As stated earler in the post"Not even the waterskiers want to ski behine the lxi".
 
It seems like its not about making a good boat but paying the bucks to get the awsa approved sticker.If the manufactur needs that on the boat then they need to produce a boat that is worthy.
 
Sounds like Malibu knows the USA-WS needs there money so they dont feel as if they need to step it up because money talks louder then performance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bbjt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 11:07pm
Dan,
  Logic or not the reality of this is the majority of the people in this sport train behind a older boat and then go to nationals and ski behind a boat they rarely see. The boat test boil down to usa-ws needs the money, they charge manufactures to much money to test a boat that they don't care if a barefooter likes bacause they know a barefooter is not going to buy one. What part of the joke are you not getting?
   I went to the southern regionals a week ago and it look like everybody was having a great time. Kinda looked like a good ole bbq with some skiing with scores involved, which is great. Everybody wants to beat their personal best. How many people in this sport are really, honestly concerned with standings list and records, so why not sanction the tournament in a fashion where you can use older boats it might help more people enjoy the sport.
    It all boils down to money not competition, if this sport was about competition you see some rivalry's on this forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 11:25pm

I can't speak for the rest of the country, but here in the South Central Region, the people who ski tournaments either own or ski all the time with people who DO have current tournament boats.  I don't necessarily disagree with you that perhaps we should allow older boats to be used for all but maybe Regionals and Nationals.

Mike, the towboat chairman, and I were having that exact discussion earlier today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan.Cummings Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 02 2007 at 11:27pm
Bob,  Unfortunately we don't have that leverage with the towboat manufacturers. If we keep sending it back, they will just say forget it and stop trying to market to barefooters, because they don't make any money on us anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote barefootbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 03 2007 at 4:04pm
I ment as a waterski communtiy.I got the impression from the read that waterskiers did not like the boat aswell.As a waterski community we should all stick together even those wakeboard boys & gals.Not to get off topic but I think at one point boaters will have be part of the BRC along with the dirtbike/4+4 riders to save our lakes and natianal parks from being closed down by org.s like the serria club wako's.
So ban together everyone!!!!!LOL
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