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Standardized Towboat

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Category: World Barefoot Topics
Forum Name: World Barefoot Discussions
Forum Description: A public forum for World Barefoot Discussions
URL: http://www.barefoot-forum.com/barefootforum/forum_posts.asp?TID=297
Printed Date: November 15 2019 at 6:59pm


Topic: Standardized Towboat
Posted By: Richard Gray
Subject: Standardized Towboat
Date Posted: April 28 2007 at 5:49pm
I would like to start some discussion on a the possibility of using a standardized towboat for a Long term at the World Championsips.
 
Wondering what I mean by this?
 
For example, contract with some boat company to provide the towboats for the next say 12 years of World Championships.  This company would also have to commit to fulfilling all requests to purchase such a boat over the contact. Also, no changes to be made to the boat, that would affect the wake, over that 12 year contact.
 
My suggestion would be to use an outboard for:
1./ Speed
2./ Option of buying without the engine
3./ Cheaper to run
 
Take the trusty old Flightcraft that we used for the 1988, 1992, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998, 2000, 2001?, 2002, Worlds.  9 World Championships over a 14 year period. In 2004 the Australians provided an outboard that was VERY much like a Flightcraft wake.
 
I think this warrants some serious consideration. This may engage a sponsor to a level we have not had in the past. May just give them a sustainable business and WILL GIVE US A WORLD CLASS TOWBOAT for an extended period of time.
 
Do not dismiss this idea to quickly.
 
 


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Richard
PanAm Region



Replies:
Posted By: Foot
Date Posted: April 28 2007 at 9:11pm
Wadda about EAME where outboards are illegal??? Dont tell me about the 4 strokes...WE tried that....Not happening yet...

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AA Region rules...Its hard to be humble when you're this good


Posted By: barefoot1
Date Posted: May 01 2007 at 11:15am
Here's a boat for you it's a inboad version of the boat that pull the 2004 Worlds and properly pull the next World's in Australia. One skier's comment was I can't believe the wash on this boat it better than my sporter. Has the perfect tricking wash as well as salom.Its dead flat in the middle no prop wash and the wake is even better than the sportster.0 to 80klm's within 100m for the skier that want's fast out. Your asking what boat ? It's a Custom Protege with a ZR6 PCM with a step down driving a 13.25x16 acme prop or wheel as you call it. THis boat was run at the 2007 Australian Barefoot Championships and Asian  Australiasian Championships and will pull Championships for years to come.Ask around to the people who skied behind it,at 3500rpm the boat pulls 68klm's.Top speed is over 85klm's per hour loaded pulling a skier.Making a video of this boat shortly pulling a skier and close up of wash GPS and passager's in boat.


Posted By: brent.benoist
Date Posted: May 01 2007 at 12:15pm
Foot,
 
Outboards are illegal in EAME?  What's that about?
 
Rich has a great point about the outboard flightcraft being our biggest workhorse over the years.  In fact my observation is that every time we have a great boat that goes obsolete for competition we end up with boat owners leaving the sport.  Lot's of folks left the sport in the USA when we stopped using the barefoot nautiques.  I know many flightcraft owners who don't compete anymore too.
 
I really would like to see a boat like the flightcraft back in competition again.


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Reserves


Posted By: Richard Gray
Date Posted: May 01 2007 at 3:49pm
I am very interested in the Custom Ski Boats Protoge. Sounds like a winner. Good guys own the company and seem to be dedicated to Barefoot.

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Richard
PanAm Region


Posted By: Foot
Date Posted: May 02 2007 at 9:21am
Richard
You really hit the nail with your head there...The Custom Protoge is the bomb!!!! It is so good the French came down here to ski and went home with one...They had to have one....Lots of room....FAST...Great wake...Fast...Nice interior...Fast....Stable...Did I mention it is FAST????? Well it is....FAST...DO NOT...I repeat DO NOT call a fast,fast, fast....It will pull you inside out...It would make a fine show ski boat as well...lots a grunt...I even have a Custom T shirt with no ketchup stains on it or anything...
Foot


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AA Region rules...Its hard to be humble when you're this good


Posted By: I12 Foot
Date Posted: May 02 2007 at 1:35pm

This boat sounds almost to good to be true.  Do they have a website?  Are there any plans to export them to the US?



Posted By: Richard Gray
Date Posted: May 02 2007 at 2:17pm
Ok,
 
So this guy Foot likes the boat. Says it has the potential of being fast.
 
This is the sort  of boat I am suggesting we look at. Strike a deal with a company like this. What ever it is. Have them Give the LOC of the Worlds a Boat as the sponsorship of the event. Likley not a bad deal for both sides. LOC gets a tournament boat to use and do with what they want (sell for $$) and the Manufacture will likley get some consitant demand for production over the 12 year life of the contract.
 
I would suggest the hull MUST stay the same for the entire 12 years. This is the whole point of my proposal. People can buy them and know that the hull will be good for a long term and not have to worry about selling it every year (unless they want to) AND, if someone does want a new boat every few years the buyer will know they ar getting the "Current Hull"
 
 


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Richard
PanAm Region


Posted By: I12 Foot
Date Posted: May 02 2007 at 2:41pm
I like this idea as well.  As a footer who has a wife and a couple of kids it is hard to justify buying a new boat every couple of years because they stop making it and then they no longer use it in tournaments.  This is one of the things that has hindered me from wanting to compete.  I know the value of being able to train behind the same equipment that I will ski behind at a tournament. 
 
I have often thought about what it would take to design a hull simular to the Flightcraft and just contract with a boat manufacurer to produce it as needed.  It could then be powered by any marine dealer with the latest outboard and the interior could be a standard set of seats.  Nice and simple but functional.  I am sure that there are costs involved in keeping it certified for use in the Nationals here in the ABC but if there were no changes to the hull I think it would just be a matter of having it done with the new motor set-up.
 
I know that there are going to be some that say the Sanger can fit this description with the DXII hull.  It has been the same for years.  That is true and it might be the boat of choice for an inboard but I think there is some value in having an outboard as well.  Especially for those of us that keep a boat for a long time.  It is a lot easier to repower an outboard with a new motor when major changes happen.


Posted By: Foot
Date Posted: May 02 2007 at 6:53pm
You arent going to get a free boat from Custom..This is a small operation that builds custom boats...I predict you wont even get a call back from any manufacturer if you put a free boat as baggage in this deal...It has been proven and told to us by EVERY manufacturer that the barefoot market is not going to make them enough $$$ to warrant any special treatment...

If you want to get a long term deal I think you will need to go to the smaller operations...Mastercraft, Malibu?? Do you think they are going to devote factory floor space to keeping a hull mold for 12 years???? Forget that crazy idea...It will be the guys like Custom or Sanger who will get this done for us...BUT not at the cost of a free boat for someone...


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AA Region rules...Its hard to be humble when you're this good


Posted By: Richard Gray
Date Posted: May 02 2007 at 11:22pm
I think it is worth a shot. If a small guy knows thet he will have the market for 12 years then the $$ he has in hard COST of the boat he gives as the deal every two years will not be such a stretch.
 
I think it is possible if the whole barefoot communitry gets behind it. What would 40 more boat sales a year mean to a guy like Custom? Might just be worth the investment in promotion. 


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Richard
PanAm Region


Posted By: brent.benoist
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 12:11am

Although I like the concept of having a known towboat, I would not be able to support this type of monopoly.  We have that now and the only two manufacturers are charging astronomical prices for marginal products.

I would be happy to support it though if I were the one making the boats and charging the astronomical prices and monopolizing the small market.  My capitalist roots run deep.


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Reserves


Posted By: Richard Gray
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 1:45am
Right now we get marginal products at astronomical prices.
 
If we did a 12 year deal the worst we would get is World Class Products at astronomical prices...WITH the added bonus of a GREAT sponsorship deal for the LOC...which passes on to the sport as a better World Championships.
 
I like option #2.
 
If you would only support it if you were the manufacturer then.....go build us the 12 year boat. 
 
The Water Skiers do this in a way. When was the last World Championships in Water Skiing that was NOT pulled by the Correct Craft Ski Nautique?
 
 


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Richard
PanAm Region


Posted By: Foot
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 5:43am
WOW 40 sales a year for 12 years...480 boats!!! WOW...Thats a lot of boats.. Who is gonna buy all of those boats..Can I get them to buy a few in advance so maybe Brad at Custom could afford to give away a free T shirt...or splurge and take Trish to dinner???

$60,000 boat every 2 years...The ski boat business is probably like every other business...MAYBE they make 15% profit after all of the bills are paid???? That would be about $9k profit on a boat...That means he has to sell 7 boats to break even every 2 years???? Times 6 free boats over 12 years makes that 42 boats Brad has to make to stay even..Sounds like a great deal...Where do I sign up....At least we will know where Brad is every day...Making all of those free boats....And do you really think it will come even close to 480 boats???? 48 maybe...That is the 6 free and the other 42 he had to make to break even...

I am gonna go out on a limb here and guess your were NOT a business major...."We lose money with every sale but we make up for it with volume sales" is not a sound business foundation....

Foot


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AA Region rules...Its hard to be humble when you're this good


Posted By: Richard Gray
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 11:00am
Actually I got a minor in Business. I do profit loss analysis for busniesses. If selling 40 Boats per year with no promotion / advertizing dollars spent other than the $26,000 I suggest would not be profitable for Brad, then I think Custom Ski Boats must have a hole in the factory safe that needs repair. But, I am sure there is, or could be someone that could make a good go of this.
 
You say he sells these for $60,000 Auzzy, and makes 15% net as the manufacturer.
 
I will use your figures:
 
If he sells 40 Boats at $60,000 each he will have a gross revenue of 2.4 Million.
 
15% Net Profit of the 2.4 M = 360,000
Promotional Boat given to the Worlds every two years = $26,000
 
Net Profit after World Barefoot Deal = $334,500.00
 
I think Brad could live a nice little life in Australia on that....and Trish would  not only get a nice meal regularly, but would have some nice wine to go with it.
 
Do I really think there are 40 Barefoot Boat sales WORLD WIDE each year for a Manufacturer that has the LONG TERM contract on the Worlds..AND has the BEST Product out there for our sport?  YES I DO.
 
He is obviously still in business so my 40 boats will not be the only units he does...or the Worlds Deal will make his marketting much easier..since he will have Sales Reps WORLD WIDE now.. most EVERY Barefooter (World Class) will be promoting his product.
 
What the heck,  even if I am 50% too high on my forcast of sales ( And I really do not think I am) and he sits back and builds 20 per year...  He will still come out of it with $154,500.00
 
 
 


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Richard
PanAm Region


Posted By: I12 Foot
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 12:08pm
What is going to be the cost of getting the boat exported into the US?
 
By my calculations it would cost me $49,500 US to purchase this boat in Australia plus I would have to ship it to the US and there may even be an import duty.  This makes the boat really expensive compared to the current barefoot boats here in the US.
 
I think that the greatest challenge that any manufacturer would face when it comes to something like this is how do you produce a boat that you can get shipped all over the world and still be a reasonable price.
 
Maybe the best idea is for someone to have a hull design and then they can contract with larger boat builders in the big markets to build the hull and top deck.  The rest of the rigging could be done in the local market with local suppliers.  This might keep the cost under control in each part of the world.  Everyone would then have the same hull bottom but the seats and dash might be configured a little differently.  They might also have a different engine but the wakes and table would still be close to the same.
 
Another challenge is that if everyone knows that this is going to be the boat for the next 12 years will there really be enough sustainable sales to keep this going after the first couple of years.  The current boat I have is 10 years old and still in great condition.  When a seat wears out I fix it.  If there is a motor problem then I can repair it.  The hull will last for many more years.  I would love to get a new boat every year of so but that is not feasable for me so I buy something and use it for a long time.  I am not even considering the possibility of replacing it until it is 12 years old.  Also, what will the sales look like for the last couple of years of the contract.  Who is going to want to buy a boat in year 11 if they know that it is going to change or might change in 2 years.
 
Let me just say I still really like this idea there are just some things that would have to be well thought out to make it really work over the long haul.


Posted By: Dan.Cummings
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 12:15pm
A couple more pieces of the equation:
1. Worlds requires at least two boats for a single lake site, not one.
2. The 26K in your example is not a one time cost as you figured.  It's a new boat in a different part of the world every two years.  Or the cost of shipping it (them) to a different part of the world every two years.


Posted By: Don Simon
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 3:35pm
        
         Lets review the tournament barefoot market as a corporation would!  The best year for Correct Craft Barefoot Nautiques was 100 boats produced when the sport was hot. Then look at all the Companys that have come & gone.Why? very simple the sport does not cost justify support. Lets face it maybe 50 skiers at a regional (less in some) Maybe 150 at a National.The sport must appeal to more spectators & skiers to make it worth marketing to a manufacture. A yard sale in Tn. sales more at retail than any vendor can sell on shore at a tournament(sorry)
         Lets think of ways to make the sport appeal to the masses so we have something to offer to a Corporation. This is America & they want a event & entertainment. I sure don't see any one wanting the same old thing for 12 years. Americans want the latest & greatest & Corporation grow by bringing out new & better products. When is the last time someone said I want a monopoly for 12 years to sell 40 of anything?
        The bottom line is untill we grow the sport we must support who we have. If we can do that Corporations will bring out new items for the sport & free up marketing funds.
         I could go on forever on buyiing,selling & trying to get service on boats without a good Corporation to back up the product. Many of you know all the problems. My last word is how many times on TV,Radio, Newspaper,E-Mail do you see a spot for anything that is the same old product for 12 years?  You do not buy a Coke out of a glass bottle anymore.      
        Just to many falls make me say funny things. Keep footin!!!!


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Don Simon


Posted By: Richard Gray
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 3:48pm

Dan,

 
Answers to your comments.
 
1./ Yes, a Worlds would need at least two boats. I am not suggesting that the one "sponsored" boat be the only one. I am suggesting that it would be a GREAT addition to the tournament budget for the LOC. Presently we need to find boats to pull the event. That would not change, BUT there would be one given to the LOC. The others would come through chanels as they do now.
 
2./ My Figure of $26,000 is not a "one time" cost if you go back and look at my pro forma.  It is an annual cost to the manufacturer. I did not add in the shipping cost, but then again the assumptions put forward were that the 15% profit was "after paying all the bills". Given that, the hard cost of the boat will be lower than $51,000 - can't add fixed costs (rent, lights, etc) into the production of it...so I figured that difference would account for more than the shipping.


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Richard
PanAm Region


Posted By: Richard Gray
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 3:54pm
What experience do I really have in this?
 
I bought a boat, sight unseen, from a small manufacturer in ...that's right Australia. Ron Brauer (I think I got the spelling). It was called a "Sucess Craft" back then. NICE Boat. He was in Toowoomba, just south of Surfers I think.
 
I sent Ron the $$ and he took the boat to the Docks in Australia. It was shipped up to me in Canada. I went to the Docks in Vancouver to pick it up, and for the first time ever to see a Sucess Craft live. I had the coolest boat in town. Foot pedal for the throttle.
 
I had to arrange shipping, insurance etc.  All doable. How else do things get from China to the local retail outlets...Shipping, not a scarry impossible task.
 
I see things like this as a Real possibility.


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Richard
PanAm Region


Posted By: Richard Gray
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 4:06pm
Don,
 
You say you don't think people want the same old thing for 12 years. Go back to the very first post.
 
The World Barefoot Championships used a Flightcraft for 14 years (save 1997 - Brendella outboard, and 1990 Barefoot Nautique & Centurian (jump only).
 
So, historically we have been happy withe the same hull for a 14 year period. If Malibu was still building Flightcrafts we may still be happy with that boat.
 
The only difference between what we did over those 14 years and my crazy idea is that we actually take advantage of having an "Exclusive Towboat" for 12 years. We had it...we just did not use it to our advantage.
 
Right now in the USA Sanger seems to be the boat of choice at tournaments.  The 2003 Worlds used them, the 2006 Worlds used them...the USA Nationals use them. There lies an opportunity for the ABC I would suggest.
 
I know there will be few people that embrace the idea becuase of some personal reasons...but what would be best for the sport as a whole?
 
Ever wonder why VISA is the official Card of the Olympic Games...and why Coca Cola is the Official Soft drink of the Olympic Games....For years and Years........


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Richard
PanAm Region


Posted By: Dan.Cummings
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 4:11pm
Richard,  Approach a manufacturer or two and see what kind of response you get.  Go for it, doesn't hurt to ask.  I'm just a little skeptical, sorry. 


Posted By: Richard Gray
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 4:12pm
I understand your skeptisism. No Problem.
 
 
 


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Richard
PanAm Region


Posted By: Dan.Cummings
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 4:21pm
Richard, the Flighty was and is a great barefoot boat.  One of the reasons they are not still made is the same issue we would have with your proposal.  Even thought he boat was very popular, there just wasn't enough revenue generated by the barefooting community to justify the cost of manufacturing.


Posted By: I12 Foot
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 5:38pm
Dan,
 
I would add that one of the reasons for that is that there was not significant change to the boat.  This did not give anyone a reason to buy another boat every couple of years.  Once you had a Flightcraft you were set and you could repower it if the motor blew.  That to me is the biggest barrier to making this happen with a large manufacturer.  They are not going to get enough sustainable sales over the 12 years to justify the costs to the company.
 
I think the only way to do this is with a hull mold that is owned by either an individual or group that is supportive of barefooting.  This group could then contract with a larger boat builder to build them when they are needed.  This group could then sell them to barefooters at a resonable mark-up.  I would be willing to rig my own boat if I could get a quality hull and a good price. 
 
I would love to get the Flightcraft hull mold and get someone to pop a couple of those hulls out.  It is not that hard to rig up an outboard.


Posted By: Foot
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 6:57pm
Minored in business??? What year did you drop out???

So what you are saying is look back at the success of the Flighcraft...We used it almost exclusively for 14 years...they were the most successful and the most dominant barefoot boat all over the planet...The whole GLOBE...If you wne to upper Fartganistan you would have found a Flightcraft....and still would if they hadnt LOST MONEY trying to keep the VERY limited production going.....And they managed to do this without having to give a single boat away...

I think you should run for office...Run anywhere!!! Because the nice young men in the white coats are LOOKING for you with butterfly nets...

Have you been in the boat business???? Gee...I have...Top 5 Mastercraft dealer worldwide for 10 years in a row..#2 twice... Add that to the 6 months I have been involved with barefooting and just maybe I have a small idea of what I speak... Call Billy Nichols..He might also have a slant on this....He is also involved in the boat business and has a little barefoot experience... He probably knows the world market for barefoot boats...Or Evert Aartsen...by golly he is actually in the barefoot boat building business...Give him a call ...

On your figures...Do you think anyone can go from a small manufacturer with one or two molds to making 50-60-100 boats a year without increasing fixed costs??? They are still going to make all of those boats in the shed out back with 2 employees??? The same electricity usage??? The same tax bracket??? Nothing but the amount of money flowing in the door will change??? FREE MONEY...Where do I sign up??? Why did those fools at Mastercraft and Malibu spend all of that money building those big factories with assembly lines when they could have followed the Richard Gray business plan???? You really need to give them a call and let the boss know that he has missed the boat (yes, thats a pun)

Its really a wonder Malibu are still in business if they cant figure that one out...They must not know the boat business as well as you do....If they did they would still be losing money producing the Flightcraft.....Hard to figure whats wrong with those guys...

Market saturation...Look that up in your business text book...Nit everybody is as rich as Dan Cummings and can afford a new boat every year....And I doubt even Dan would buy a new boat every year if they remained the same... Why does Ferrari change their models??? I would love to have even an old Ferrari...But maybe they change then so rich people will buy NEW Ferraris and give guys like me the chance to buy a used one...OK so I am dreaming but you get my point...Or maybe you dont

Give it  a try.... I'll bet you $10 I'm closer to reality than you are....


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AA Region rules...Its hard to be humble when you're this good


Posted By: Evert Aartsen
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 7:07pm
Foot

we are running most events in Europe with 4 stroke outboards and they work perfect better then any inboard or 2 stroke outboard.
the modern 4 stroke is faster out of the hole and speeds are easy to hold on the whole rpm range, extra weight of the engine is minimal.
Of cause we are not speaking about Mercs in this case we better stick to the Japanese engines like Suzuki and Yamaha.
come on Foot get into this century


Posted By: Evert Aartsen
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 7:22pm
Richard

I have to agree with Foot, YOU ARE DREAMING if you want someone to sell 40 barefoot boats a year you got make the sport grow and grow a lot.I am sure you realize that the sport is getting smaller every year.
My suggestion is :Lets first find out what we need to change in our sport to make it interesting again and then if we find a way to do that succesfully and get our sport going up hill again maybe then we will become interesting for sponsors.
Right now even I who loves this sport more then most of you will not invest a penny in it anymore there is zero return on investment and that is just not very tempting for a sponsor.


Posted By: Dan.Cummings
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 7:27pm

Geez, someone hit the sarcasm emergency stop button.  LOL  At least I hope it's sarcasm Foot.  Otherwise, you are just mean brother!  LOL 

And someone has been lying to you if they told you I was rich!  LOL  The only way I could be considered rich is because I've got a wonderful lady for a wife, great kids and grandkids....  But I digress.
 
By the way, I believe the Flightcraft changed in those 14 years, at least above the water line.


Posted By: I12 Foot
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 7:39pm

It did change but not enough to significantly change the wake.  Most of it was above the waterline.  So if you had an old Flightcraft to train with there was no reason to purchase a new one unless you just wanted to have a newer model.

This has turned into one of the most entertaining threads to read.  I am learning real life applications to my MBA in relation to the boat building business.

LOL



Posted By: Dan.Cummings
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 9:55pm
I was fortunate enough to get a behind the scenes tour of the Malibu plant in Tennessee a few weeks ago.  After that tour, I understand a whole lot better why manufacturers have a hard time justifying making something just for the barefooters.  Just to build the boats, there are jigs and molds for everything from the hull, top, consoles, dashes, floors stringers, wiring harnesses, seats, gunnels, etc.  Not to mention the facilities and personnel, training, materials stock, etc.  And since manufacturers like Malibu offer lifetime warranties on all the fiberglass, they have to store all those jigs, molds, etc. 
 
Now we are going to ask a manufacturer to keep all that available and set up to make a run of maybe 40 boats?  I'm no economics major, but common sense tells me that isn't likely to happen.  I agree with Avert that we are going to first grow the sport to a size that appeals to the boat manufacturers before we will get them to buy in.
 
But hey,  I've been wrong before.  So, contact some manufacturers and see what they say Richard.


Posted By: Richard Gray
Date Posted: May 03 2007 at 10:48pm
Foot,
 
How many boats is the Custom Ski boat plant putting out right now?
 
 


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Richard
PanAm Region


Posted By: Foot
Date Posted: May 04 2007 at 3:21am
Richard,
The Custom ski boat PLANT??? I told you it was a shed in some guys back yard..HE makes an awesome boat but it aint a big production..Actually it isnt in his back yard...it is in his house....or his house is in it....

Evert,
We ran the nationals 2 years ago with a 4 stroke outboard...We arent completely out of touch with the 21st century down here...We actually get the newspaper a day BEFORE you do... Remember it is yesterday there and tomorrow here....So there!!!!

Dan,
You hit the big reason right with your head...The cost is exponential.... Bucket loads of $$$ just to make a test hull...
When I was running the Vector project for Lamborghini we spent over 20 MILLION dollars developing one prototype car....And it never went into production....(My wife took it out for a test drive/photo shoot and ran out of gas...OOOPS) (Evert, Did your dad ever tell you about visiting me at work at Lambo???? I had to pry him outta there with a crow bar, he drooled on every car, nose prints on every window)
I know it used to cost (15-20 years ago when I was working in boats) over 100K for CC or MC to tool up a prototype mold for production.....probably double that now...That was the reason we got some boats that said "Barefoot" down the side but were not anything like a BF boat...By the time CC or MC had invested the $$$$ to get it to the wet testing phase they were in for so much $$$$$ it didnt matter how good it worked or didnt work...They HAD to use it.. Not enough $$$$$ to do it over....

Dan, You're too right.. I am suffering Richard with the slings and arrows of sarcasm....He deserves it after bothering to reply after I showed him on paper that his idea wont float...After all, everybody knows that I know everything and have only been wrong once....(now you're really wondering if I'm being sarcastic) And youre right.... I am MEAN...I'm so mean sometimes I scare myself...(this is the part where Richard tells me I only get scared when I look in the mirror)
I still think you are rich...You have it made...Lovely lady..lake right in the yard with a Malibu in the boat house..If that aint rich I dont know what is....And good on ya for being rich....Money cant buy what you have....There are plenty of unhappy people with loads of $$$$...

Hope everyone found this string entertaining.. I sure did... Remember, I can dish it out so I have to be able to take it as well, so send those slings and arrows my way anytime you get to feeling froggy....

Foot


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AA Region rules...Its hard to be humble when you're this good


Posted By: custombrad
Date Posted: May 04 2007 at 4:38am
Somebody asked about Custom ski boats web site? Its http://www.customskiboats.com.au - www.customskiboats.com.au      . CHEERS  . 

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www.customskiboats.com.au


Posted By: Evert Aartsen
Date Posted: May 04 2007 at 8:59am
Foot if you ran 2 nationals with 4 stroke outboards my question is: When and with what engine?
Trust me foot I know what I am speaking about you can ask all European barefooters and the guys and girls that skied the world games in Germany that a 4 stroke works fantastic.

Richard let Charger Composites be the first company to make you an offer:
You will get World wide exlusive sales rights for the Ski Charger and after the first year when you sold 40 boats we will sponsor 2 free boats to the World barefoot council.
This is a great deal for you as well think of the money you will make when you sell 40 boats.
Please let me know what you think about that deal.


Posted By: Richard Gray
Date Posted: May 04 2007 at 11:23am
Evert,
 
I am not in this for any money. I, nor the WBC would make any money from the 40 (or whatever that number may be) boat sales. The one, or two now that you have offered, boats will be for the LOC.
 
Lot's of nay sayers out there. Oh well. You seem interested in 40 boats per year,. Are you sure you could make money at that. Foot, the expert, says you will lose your shirt.
 
Richard


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Richard
PanAm Region


Posted By: aharris
Date Posted: May 04 2007 at 11:29am
To everyone, and I do mean everyone.    I just read this string from start to finish and I must CONGRATULATE each and every one of you for one of the most entertaining reads I ever had.

You guys are all one big riot!   I love it.   The trees are rustling here in north London due to the vibrations from my laughter.   I am crying with joy reading this stuff.    PLEASE keep it going...   GREAT stuff - really great!

The Gam

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Posted By: Evert Aartsen
Date Posted: May 04 2007 at 11:31am
Richard

If you are not in it for the money then sell them without a profit but what I am trying to say is that I will put my faith in you since you are the only guy on this planet that believes you can sell 40 barefoot boats a year.
And yes if you can sell 40 boats of cause I am interested.
And remember the 2 free boats are only available after you sold those 40 boats.


Posted By: Bigfoot
Date Posted: May 04 2007 at 1:25pm
Reading with interest. Now for a wake up call.
 
Do you really think for even just a minute that a Federation hosting the Worlds will be using boats just because the WBC say so?
Wake up and smell the roses folks. When the WBC pay all the sanction fees, then all the costs associated with the tournament...... then they can use whatever boats they like if they supply them. Until then if it is in the guidlines of a boat description that fits in the rule book criteria then just suit up and be ready to rock!
 
With the current Water situation downunder at present it might just be 4WD ute with a lounge suite on the back of it dragging you through the dust! I can sell 40 of those no problem.
 
They don't need bungs either!!!LOL


Posted By: Richard Gray
Date Posted: May 04 2007 at 4:55pm
Bigfoot,
 
The LOC of the Water Ski Worlds does not chose the towboat. Not saying what they do is what we should do, but they do negotiate the boat contract. Correct Craft is the boat, no matter when the World will be.
 
Good conversation around all this.
 
 


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Richard
PanAm Region


Posted By: Bigfoot
Date Posted: May 05 2007 at 3:25am
Richard,
 
Understood. But If we run the Worlds down here the LOC will use the boats they can get a deal under. Unless the WBC or governing body want to shell out for the fees etc! As long as it fits in the rulebook guidelines it's ok and each LOC would be mad not to go for the best deal to suit them.


Posted By: Foot
Date Posted: May 05 2007 at 4:57am
Geoff,
REG is suggesting that the selected manufacturer would GIVE a FREE boat to the LOC...to KEEP...or SELL...for FREE.. I dont know of ANY LOC who would turn down that deal....As a matter of fact I am first, second, and third in line if REG ever gets this going...

Richard,
So I guess you flunked reading as well as business 101...

I NEVER said Custom would "lose their shirt" if they could sell 40 boats a year to the barefoot market..Brad would LOVE that..

What I said was the barefoot market cant support selling 40 boats in ONE year much less for 12 years running.. Further I said if Brad was to give a free boat to the LOC for 6 Worlds he would have to produce and sell about 48 boats just to break even.....And that following your business plan is a dead set certain, lead pipe cinch, way to NOT make money..Selling 40 boats outright is a way to make money...Depending on the barefoot market to sell 40 boats a year while giving away a boat every 2 years is the way to the poor house...

How do you make a small fortune in the boat business??? Start with a large fortune and follow your plan....

Listen to Evert..He has made the best offer you're gonna get...Sell those 40 boats for Charger Composites and then you get the free ones..EASY...I'll pay for delivery myself...And throw in the hat I had to eat....Or sell 40 boats for Custom...I'll make the same offer on the shipping....I do have one question...Do you really think we will still be barefooting the day after Hell freezes over?????

Andy, I agree this has been fun..I can hardly wait for Richards next "good" idea...He is a riot...he aught to be on stage...But I mean the next stage leaving town....

Foot


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AA Region rules...Its hard to be humble when you're this good


Posted By: Bigfoot
Date Posted: May 05 2007 at 6:22am
So using your logic on this one Foot, Cstom would supply 1 to the US for free? If we need 2 boats how and where the does the 2nd one come from? Unless it is pre sold it ain't gonna happen.
 
I like Richards concept but in the case of Tournament and Wakeboard no free boats are given out. Plenty of cash is given to the IWSF or LOC's to get the pulling rights.


Posted By: Richard Gray
Date Posted: May 05 2007 at 11:58am
Foot,
 
$26,000 evey year (and it would be substantially less than that, as I have only been using your figures) is just 1% of the Gross revenue.  Not sure what business class you were in but 1% of Gross to spend on promotion/advertising is not too bad a deal.
 
You seem to be the expert here though so I will digest all of your advice. You were able to head up an unsucsessful Vector Project so you know first hand.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


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Richard
PanAm Region


Posted By: Richard Gray
Date Posted: May 05 2007 at 12:01pm
What would be everyone's estimate of the number of barefoot bpats sold each year in their respective countires or regions. ALL Barefoot boats. If Flightcraft sells 3 in Australia, Custom sells 1, and sucesscraft sells 1 that would be 5.
 
 


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Richard
PanAm Region


Posted By: aharris
Date Posted: May 05 2007 at 12:23pm
That's easy Rich.   GBR = 0 (Zero)

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Posted By: Evert Aartsen
Date Posted: May 05 2007 at 1:07pm
Richard
do you not really not understand what foot is trying to say ?? or are you playing stupid?
Foot says your idea is great if you could actualy sell 40 boats a year it even might work with 30 BUT YOU ARE NOT GONNA SELL THAT MANY BOATS!!!!!!
So you might as well start a space travel business where you ask 80 million dollars for a one hour trip to space and
where you will need to sell 10000 trips a year for the next 10 years to make 10 mill a year profit, sounds like a great business plan as well but believe it or not its not gonna work. Allthough you have a better change then with your barefootboat plan.


Posted By: Foot
Date Posted: May 05 2007 at 8:50pm
Evert,
Good one Evert,, BUT...Richard ain't playing!!!!

Geoff
PLEASE dont attribute this "logic" to me....I just tried to clarify REG's topic... I think its crazy...

Andy,
So in GB, one of the most affluent barefoot federations...one that sends full teams and has WORLD CLASS skiers, sells an average of ZERO new barefoot boats a year...Lets multiply that by the number of other federations and I think we will get pretty close to the actual number that REG should be using for his business plan projections...

REG,
The Vector project was not "unsuccessful" ...We sold every car we made...Except of course the prototypes and the ones that were built specially for racing.... we sold them as fast as we could make them...When Porsche/Audi bought Lambo the Germans decided to close the project...."Consolidation of resources" was their stated reason...I think they were jealous....Our car was prettier than the Italian made one...and faster...and cheaper...

Now, where do you get the figure that puts $26k as 1% of the gross???? Whose gross??? The imaginary company who is selling those imaginary boats to those thousands of imaginary barefooters buying a new imaginary boat every year...REG, Did your doctors change your meds again?? They ain't working...Put the aluminum foil hat back on so you can stop the Martians from sending the cosmic rays of befuddlement into your skull....

I would like to sign up for your space trip venture if you decided to get that one going... I am sure you would allow me to be the first non paying one way passenger.....

Foot


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AA Region rules...Its hard to be humble when you're this good


Posted By: brent.benoist
Date Posted: May 06 2007 at 6:54pm

The assumption seems to be that IF every country in the world ONLY bought the one boat brand, THEN -ONLY one boat company could make enough profit to support the sport financially.

That really is a big IF statment even for me (and I want to do this).  Not sure if this works unless the boat has some other intrinsic value that would entice someone to buy it - like fuel economy or exceptinal style for example.
 
Having worked in a boat factory, and not being completely devoid of skills, I think I could build one barefoot boat a month and rig it for sale.  If I had at least one helper, the molds, and a shop.  So for me, the question is can I justify a business on 12 boats a year.  Certainly don't see myself giving away the 12 boat each year.


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Reserves


Posted By: Foot
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 12:40am
Dan Goldie
Last time I was in Europe (a few years ago )a lot of waterways were banning the use of 2 stroke outboards due to the oil in the exhaust..If something has changed I would bet it is that those bodies of water are now completely shut down to power boats altogether so maybe you never even knew they were available to us in the past....


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AA Region rules...Its hard to be humble when you're this good


Posted By: I12 Foot
Date Posted: May 07 2007 at 3:18pm
Brent,
I think you are correct the biggest problem is that it would take every country in the world to purchase the same boat.  I agree this would be great for the sport but it is really not feasible at this time.  There are all kinds of things that would have to be solved and one of the biggest is getting everyone to agree on the same boat.  Just go check out the threads in the ABC section under towboats.  There are as many opinions about boats as there are people in the world.  I would love to just have an old Flightcraft, not gonna happen, the wife does not want an outboard because she wants the platform across the back and the prop under the boat.  It is safer for the kids.  This is a great thread and has gotten the thoughts moving.


Posted By: Bftskir
Date Posted: July 01 2007 at 11:34pm
i have thought long and hard and i have some ideas on how many cupholders the boat should have and where they should be placed...
 
 
i didn't hear mention of the Sanger Outboard...its better than a flighty and Sanger might really build it again if you asked...but i like a platform and an inboard too so the DXII from Sanger gets my vote for the world barefoot boat as long as they go small block high horsepower...i am currently the owner of the dream barefoot boat, a Sanger DXII with a Mercury Racing Scorpion 377 ci/hp 400lbs torque 50+mph tournament loaded and towing a footer...it does it all.    


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This is the life!


Posted By: SPEEDRACERV
Date Posted: March 22 2012 at 6:50pm
I agree with BFTSKIR we already have a boat and a company who wants to make the barefoot program work... SANGER! Call Scott Peletan and if you have a way he can sell more boats andf make more money he will be all in. He has tried to keep the barefoot boat at sanger alive for years despite sangers lack of interest. If it werent for Scott the DXII would be history too. There is no market, and going to one specific hull will alienate skiers even more, if they cant have a current or past boat to train on they will leave the sport too. I havent seen any posts from BFC01 on this but Im sure he has alot of input. Unless we get barefooting as big as wakeboarding we are not gonna get a bearfoot specific boat, we will get a boat made for something else that may be good for barefooting. In my humble opinion trying to monopolize the tournament boats is not the answer. Why are we worried about this anyway? BAREFOOT ON WHAT YOU GOT< JUST BAREFOOT!!!! AND TEACH SOMEONE NEW TO BAREFOOT!!!



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