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Melissa True View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Melissa True Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Women's Jump
    Posted: August 26 2012 at 12:52pm
Recently there has been some discussion regarding placing all female jumpers in the same group at the US level. The discussion has been in the USA since our female jumper numbers are low. What do you think about this? What are the Pros and Cons that you the skiers see?
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Mike@Coolerbythelake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike@Coolerbythelake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2012 at 5:08pm
I'd keep it as is.  We don't combine age divisions in tricks or slalom where the numbers are low.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mnfooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2012 at 10:49pm
I believe Womens Jump needs to have 2 groups (age division and Open).  I think that an age division jumper just starting out needs to feel they can compete with another jumper in their division even if it is only 1 other jumper. Likewise I think the Open Women Jumpers deserve the distinction of being in the "Open" Division.

Paul.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2012 at 9:47pm
This is a complex issue that is in a state of flux right now..
IMO the BIG  issue with Womens jump is most women are not attracted to jumping.. So you end up with a lot of 2 event skiers who cant compete for overall against 3 eventers.. This forces women who dont really want to jump into that event..
Historically most women jumped about the same distance (short) so they could compete in all 3 events without spending much time on jump.. Now we are seeing an influx of women inverting and that is REALLY going to change the dynamics of womens jump and the womens divisions as a whole..
I strongly believe that SR women should not be required to jump.. If it was a 2 event comp I think we would see a LOT more Sr women competitors..
For open women they will all either be inverting or not able to play in that arena
For girls they will have the beginners and the few who are inverting..  Those who are inverting will kill the overalls of the conventional jumpers..
In this regard the women are following the mens progression.. The differenece will be in SR Women.. I seriously doubt we will ever have enough inverted Sr Women to make up a competitive jump event (an event where every jumper doesnt go through to the next round as along as they land a jump)..
So should we be talking to the non jumping ladies and asking them if they would compete more if jump was not required???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulfooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2012 at 7:51pm
Why not score womens' overall on best 2 of 3 events?  That way jumpers get credit without penalizing non-jumpers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2012 at 1:56am
Actually that sounds a lot better than it works.. We tried it.. The women jumpers have a huge advantage on which score to choose.. If there are only a very few women jumpers (as we are now) typically ALL of the women jump the same distance and the worst jumper gets around 900 overall points.. If there is only one she gets 1000 overall points for a 10 foot plop over the jump. Once again the women who dont jump look at this and decide to either take the risk and plop over or they go home and dont come back.. Yes, there are a few women who actually train jump, get coaching and deserve to jump in competition.. A huge percentile are unsafe coz they do all of their practice at tournaments.. < id="gwProxy" ="">< jscode="leoInternalChangeDone" ="ifofjsCall==''jsCall;elsesetTimeout'jsCall',500;" id="jsProxy" ="">
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Minion Gus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2012 at 10:20am
I don't like the direction this conversation is going. I think Paul Adams is correct in that you need to keep women jumpers assigned to their age divisions. The ones who aren't jumping, will be incented to learn to jump if others in their division are jumping and winning Overall titles. If they get their tricks and wakes up to the Open level, they will have incentive to work harder to become better jumpers in order to compete. I wonder if Ashleigh, Georgia, or Elaine would have pushed themselves to become the awesome jumpers that they are today if the path was made easy for them?
 
I think the current system provides incentive to keep the skiers motivated in progessing the sport and their own abilities.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I12 Foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2012 at 6:03pm
Ok, there are two different issues here and they seem to be getting mixed together.
 
1.  The topic was started as something for discussion at the US level which only has age divisions and Open ratings for women.  Melissa's question was about whether or not we should just combine all female jumpers for competition here in the US.  If you look at the numbers for Women's jump here in the US for 2011 (the most recent data that was easily accessed) you will find that we only had 7 women jumpers and the jumps ranged in distance from 8.5 to 21.2 and there was only one jumper that jumped over 11.2.  So, if we are only talking about US tournaments then this would make the most sense at this time and if we grew the number of Women's Jumpers then we could change it back later.
 
2.  Women's Jumpers at a World level there are three divisions of competition at the World Level and Foot points out that Sr. Womens jump has real low numbers with very short jumps.  If you look at those number for 2011 there were only 3 women in the entire world that were Sr. Women Jumpers.  So at a World Championship only one of those three Women would be competing for the overall title.  Now we just had a World Championship and they had four Sr. Women Jumpers at that event and the jumps were between 8.9 and 10.5.  Tight competition but again only four Women that were competing for overall as the other four that were there did not jump.  Would we get more Sr. Women interested in competing if they did not have to jump in order to go for an overall title?  I don't know but it seems that we really need to ask the Sr Women this question and see what they have to say about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Minion Gus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2012 at 8:42am
So by removing jump as a factor in the Sr. Womens Overall, you basically give Sr. Womens skiers a reason to get out of jumping...if they don't need the score, they don't have to ski the event. I think you keep it as is, and reward the skiers who continue to push themselves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2012 at 2:59am
Gus, The vast majority of Sr Women dont jump.. (87% in the 2011 RL) The rules require it to win overall and still they dont jump.. It isnt about reward for these gals... it is about survival.. The absolutely most fit Sr woman I know of, Gizzie, only jumps coz it is required.. She doesnt train it due to the injury rate..

Women start out 20% weaker than men just due to genetics.. Add age, osteoporosis and raising children to that and it gets really dicey.. Gus youre thinking from a mans view point.. And there comes a time when we dont even allow old men to jump.. Women will reach that age sooner.. It is just the way God designed women..

How many sr women jumpers do you know who dont wear every kind of brace made just to plop over a jump?? Let me rephrase that question.. How many sr women jumpers do you even know??

Why not change the thought paradigm here and think of it as 'lets open up the division to more competition'..

IF the sr women didnt have to jump do you think we would see more or fewer sr women participating?? Do you think the jump requirement has driven off more than it has encouraged to stay??

My guess is you wold see more sr women and jump has scared off more than it has retained.. I dont know much but I know sr women and jump arent a good mix..

Gus look at the ranking list.. in 2011 there were 22 sr women on the list.. THREE of them jumped.. 'Reward those that continue to push themselves'??? when only 13% of all the skiers in the world choose to do something that keeps them from winning I think that is a pretty clear indication they dont want that "reward".. That's not my opinion.. That's the facts..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BFC01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 12 2012 at 7:55am
An idea: Drop jump, but keep it a 3 event competition. Allow the skier in the top position after completing Tricks and Slalom to choose which of those two events is to be run twice. That will give the top seed the advantage (thus the reward for being at the top).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2012 at 1:58am
A novel idea Chuck.. Might be fun.. a pick and choose 3rd round dictated by the overall leaders favorite event.. Worth talking about// < id="gwProxy" ="">< jscode="leoInternalChangeDone" ="ifofjsCall==''jsCall;elsesetTimeout'jsCall',500;" id="jsProxy" ="">
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2014 at 4:03pm
I agree with Foot. I think at a certain age there must be a choice for snr competiters to opt out of jumping. Sure there should be some penalty, if Gizzie can still smash out a reasonable jump...she wins, but the two event skiers should have a chance. to go head to head.
 
Not sure of the solution.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Gray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 1:07am
There are a grand total of 4 Sr. Women entered in the Jump event at the 2014 World Championships......
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